I guess I owe you a couple of apologies. The first apology is for the delay in responding to your gross mischaracterization of my statements. You see, I just returned from Fayetteville after helping a near and dear family member go through, quite coincidentally, the whole freshmen orientation process at the University of Arkansas. You’ll be happy (or maybe not) to learn that he requires no remediation and qualifies for the honors program. Additionally, he was able to test out of several hours of freshman-level courses because he was more than prepared for college, but I digress.

Second, I apologize for taking such a cheap and easy shot at your writing skills as I was unaware that you reserve your best writing for “essay contest(s).” While not knowing that you are a “political science major not english(sic),” it was rather presumptuous of me to assume that you should want to use good writing skills to persuade others. My bad.

John, you asked the question “When were the standards higher?” I answered it. You just simply don’t like the answer and have decided to twist and distort what I’ve said and offer no statistics of your own. You throw out red herrings and build up straw man arguments such as saying that I think some people shouldn’t be allowed to apply. Balderdash and poppycock! That is absolutely incorrect. I never said that anyone should be kept from applying. Please don’t put words in my mouth. You also keep saying that students in remediation don’t get college credit. Of course they don’t. I never said they do. Stick to the point John, which is your question “When were the standards higher?”

Remediation rates are a major challenge for colleges. The lowering or raising of admission standards are an integral factor in determining remediation rates. While the last couple of years have seen a minor drop in Arkansas’ remediation rates, only time will tell if this is a trend. Don’t take my word for these facts. Read this article http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/print.aspx?ArticleID=8dac2f22-5e4f-4d5d-9cff-a1397a45ec8e

or google this book “Handbook of College Reading and Study Strategy Research.”

Or does this do anything for you? A tad bit dated, but still relevant: “The latest figures show that almost all colleges and universities (98 percent) allow students to take remedial courses at the same time as college-level courses; some 23 percent give college-level credit for catch-up courses, thus providing the appearance – not the reality – of core courses.” Source: Wallin, Jeffrey ‘Colleges should change course.’ USA TODAY, 20 September 1996 [National Center for Educational Statistics ]

Or maybe you’d like to read what happened at CUNY. They stiffened their enrollment requirements by doing away with most of their remedial classes. Do you still see no link between admission requirements and remediation? http://www.highereducation.org/crosstalk/ct0205/news0205-cuny.shtml

Let’s look at credentials for a moment, John. Unless you’re holding out on us, the entirety of your experience in college admissions is completely anecdotal in that you applied and were accepted three years ago. As for me, the past several years I have worked and continue to work in the field of education, including several semesters as an adjunct professor at an Arkansas community college, where I have seen remediation in action. Also, you question whether or not I have a degree. Yes John, I do and I am currently working on dual masters’ degrees.

Now, if my credentials are not sufficient for you, or if the above links are not to your liking, I accepted your challenge and I offer you the following from page 30 of the University of Arkansas CATALOG OF STUDIES 2009-2010 CD or here on page two http://catalogofstudies.uark.edu/0910-04-Orientation.pdf . It states:

“Arkansas State Requirements for Developmental Course Placement
Arkansas law specifies that all first-time entering freshmen enrolled in a bachelor’s degree program will be placed in either college-level credit courses in English and mathematics or remedial courses in English composition, reading, and mathematics on the basis of their scores on specified tests.”

John, what part of “enrolled in a bachelor’s degree program” is so hard for you to understand? You can be enrolled in a degree program and by state law the college must place students, if necessary, in remedial classes based on their scores. That’s Arkansas law! Remedial students are admitted into bachelor degree programs. What other proof do you need? I guess challenging me to look at a handbook wasn’t such a good idea for making your case, but there it is.

You also said that you “think that the stadardize(sic) testing and the totality of high school performance is the best way to determine admission.” If those were the only criteria for admission to college, no remedial students would be accepted into college. So, by your own words, you don’t think remedial students should be allowed to enter college. Why would you say such a mean and hateful thing to remedial students and then pretend to defend them? Why do you apparently dislike remedial students to the point that you would say that they “are not in any university studies program at any university” when they clearly are as stated in the U of A Catalog?

By the way, how can you speak of remedial students as if they’re not real students accepted to the college or university? Try telling them they are “not in any university studies program at any university,” whatever that means. Why do you want to discriminate and segregate these students? They are real students in real degree programs. Sometimes they are admitted conditionally and others are fully admitted but blocked from enrolling in certain courses until they have completed their remediation, but they are admitted nonetheless, as per Arkansas law cited above. By your theory, more than 50% of the freshmen walking around the average Arkansas university campus are “not in any university studies program at any university.” Really?

For the record John, since you like to distort and twist my words, I do think it is wonderful when people try to better themselves through education. I have helped many remedial students try to do this. How many remedial students have you helped get into college, huh? How many have come back to you to tell you “thanks” for helping them? Unfortunately, I am often saddened to hear of and from many of them who drop out before the first semester is over. I tell them to keep studying and reading on their own and that maybe it just wasn’t the right time for them, but don’t lose hope.

John, you challenged me to stop “bailing out on the debate.” I was unaware that this was a debate. You’ve offered no facts, just screaming at me using all caps. Screaming doesn’t make your point more valid. Yelling is a sure sign that you haven’t a decent argument. That would never fly in the world of debate. It’s also just bad Internet etiquette.

The facts are what they are. Most of today’s remedial students would not have been admitted to a college or university 30, 40, or 50 years ago without lowering, bending, adjusting, modifying, etc. the admission requirements and increasing the number of available remedial classes.

So John, I’m going to, as they say on TV just before the commercial, leave you with the last word. Get mad, twist my words, put words in my mouth, change the topic, SCREAM AT ME WITH WHOLE PARAGRAPHS IN ALL CAPS all you want. I’ve answered your question and offered proof and real-life experiences, while you’ve figuratively stomped your feet and said college is hard, don’t be mean to us. The floor is yours sir, but there will be no reply from me because much like my well fed cat that instinctively plays for a while with an injured mouse and then suddenly walks away, I am bored with this “debate” in which I am the only one who is required provide facts.

Oh, and believe me or not, I do wish you much success in furthering your education and in whatever you decide as a career choice. An educated America is a better America.

(DumbArkie thinking to himself: Kinkade is going to be pissed that this comment is longer than his ArDemGaz article on the Tea Party that I’m almost finished reading……..Now I want to find that jackass Bill in Sheridan who asked “Do you think the standards for admission to college might be a little too low these days?” Thanks a lot Bill!)

1)You were busy when you wrote it (as in your apology above.)
2)Your English professors had very bad graduate assistants.

So as not to disparage the graduate assistants, I will assume that you were EXTREMELY busy.

The standards have never been lower. Look at remediation rates now versus 30, 40, or 50 years ago. They’re well over 50% in four of the state universities (77% in community colleges). In other words, more than 50% of Arkansas’ college students aren’t ready for college work!

And you can bet your bottom lottery dollar that it’s about to go even higher as pressure is put on high school counselors to get EVERY kid, deserving or not, capable or not, into college and help burn through Passailaigue’s new mountain of cash.

Back in the day, you went to college because you were ready for college. Now, NOT dropping out of high school is all you need to be eligible for college (and a pile of free money.)

Do you think the standards for admission to college might be a little too low these days?